As with anything, the devil is in the details. That was when I pointed the revolver and fired at center mass. FLORIDA IN WINTER AND HAVE USED IT ON SEVERAL PIT BULLS AFTER ME AND NOT THAT IMPRESSED, FIGURE PISSED OFF BEAR 100 X PIT BULL SO NO THANKS. They did not have a .44 magnum. from the muzzle. A sold core flat nose bullet has a better chance of penetrating a grizzly bears heavy skin, thick coat, and large bones than a hollow point that is designed to expand as rapidly as possible. Keep your distance if possible. While some may consider it the minimum, it's plenty powerful enough to stop an onerous bear. In the event that I need to get off a second shot at a charging grizzly bear, I want a pistol I can handle comfortably, re-acquire a sight picture, and get off an accurate shot in the quickest possible time. That same bullet in a .357 Magnum exits a four-inch barrel upwards of 1,400 fps. As the bear charge drill in his course demonstrates, the average bear attack will happen at 50 yards or less with an 800-pound animal moving at 30 mph. If you are carrying a handgun for self-protection against black bear, be sure to practice with it beforehand so that you are proficient in its use. Pistolero Magazine in the 1980s when shooting barnyard hogs found that there was no difference in killing power between the .357 magnum, .45 acp, 38 special and 919. And that was from a pretty stout rifle round, .300 Win Mag IIRC. Oddly enough, that same 158 grain LRN bullet is prone to through and through on people. They must have been some real badasses.. However, if you are reasonably accurate, a single strike on a vital area of a grizzly bear such as the head, shoulder, or internal vitals will generally produce a quick and humane kill. I am still looking for some 300 grainers. Down in the article a little ways Paco talks about his bear kill. Far more important, in my book, is the ability to draw and accurately fire your bear defense weapon in a very short period of time. The guys got lucky.. How in the hell did our ancestors kill them with a rock tied on the end of a stick? I see youre suddenly changing from Jesse Pinkman language to an exact imitation of Donald Trump-tweet language.Why? American Buffalo Knife and Tool Co. is adding to its line of Roper Knives with the new Sunset Series Tumble Weed. Grizzlies may become aggressive for a number of reasons. Unless its dead calm, you better be sure you know what direction the wind is blowing. WHEN IN HOUSE CHEST RIG ALWAYS ON AND PISTOL UNDER PILLOW AT NIGHT. Our Sitemap. They routinely feed on the gut piles of hunter-killed elk and, along with their cousins Alaska brown bears, are known to try to claim carcasses from hunters. Youtubes pretty good, and even has spray vs. grizzly vids too, readers. He includes several photographs. Cause theyd be weaponless from the a _ _ rape theyd get coming through Canada. He never said pistols were 100% effective. As an avid outdoors person (hunting and fishing mostly)I love to mention and link to various products and gear I use. As for his own writing, yeah, I sure do criticize it. Or cant hunt them easily/legally so shoot yourself a moose and wait around for the main event? Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. 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ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Hes seen a large grizzly remain upright and functional for 90 seconds to 2 minutes after taking a fatal chest shot. A 5" S&W 629 .44 Magnum revolver being fired with full power ammo at the point of maximum recoil. The number of large caliber rifle rounds that came out of that bastard were truly frightening. You criticize Dean for his 30 cases, all of which are sourced, yet you flat out refuse to source your own claims. Luck by definition means the odds are against you. No problem. FRIEND HAD BEAR COME THRU WINDOW ONE NIGHT SO NUFF SAID. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OniKk-UUWD8, 35 Whelen for Elk: The Perfect Caliber for North American Big Game. I prefer to carry a flat nose jacketed bullet. . grizzly charging at 30 mph, but the .44 magnum or better it will require is going to give you exactly one chance in 2.5 seconds to hit that bear precisely in the heart or brain. Ruger chambers the .454 Casull in both the Super Redhawk with a 4-inch barrel and the Alaskan in a 3-inch variant, both of which are compact and easy to draw when things get up close and personal. test, none of us were looking forward to running the S&W 329 PD with the Hornady 240-grain JHP loads I had brought along. MY BEST ADVICE HAVING HAD TO DEFEND MY SELF MANY TIMES IN WAR AND CIVILIAN LIFE IS BE AND STAY PREPARED WITH BEST EQUIPMENT CAN AFFORD AND BEST ADVICE YOU CAN SEEK. Admit that you made a mistake, Hank, and that you were wrong, and apologize. I had no expectation that the pistol would kill the bear. Probably the worst-case scenario that anyone spending time in bear country can face is a charging grizzly bear. .375 H&H (300gr Hornady DGX at 2,530fps)(4,263 ft lbs): 40.7 On Thursday, 19 March, 2015, a woman with a .44 magnum stopped a polar bear from attacking Jakub Moravec, 37, in the Svalbard archipelago. Wow dude, for real? Hes an intelligent and well-educated man who honestly believes his own be-afraid B.S., but its still be-afraid B.S. These two not only affect the delivered energy of your bullet but also the weight and felt recoil that you will experience. Compared to pretty much every other mammal, humans are easy to put out of action. Hes in a medical field, Id really like to know if he noticed any hearing damage after 4-5 rounds of *big boom*. Many bear attacks happen in brush where a shorter draw is preferable. The biggest thing you can do to protect yourself from bears (at least in Alaska) is to respect them, their home, and their food source. Your personal decision to sit on your ass too much. Remember that handguns are not as powerful as rifles and may not provide enough penetration on larger bears. For general backpacking in grizzly country, MeatEater Founder Steven Rinella has carried both bear spray and a .44 Magnum revolver. As stated by Marshall and Sanow in Stopping Power, As a general trend, and all else being equal, stopping power increases as the size of the recovered bullet increases., In addition, their table Caliber Comparison on page 335 shows a significant advantage for .45 ACP over .38.special. The Glock 20 chambered in 10mm has become a popular carry choice in bear country. It was pretty much a niche round til Dirty Harry. You have to do more than say there are books out there, you have to read em. People must do that. And if you want grownups to take you seriously, you really do have to stop sounding just like Jesse Pinkman. Aim for the center of mass whenever possible in order to ensure a quick and clean kill. I was awfully struck by the Santa Cruz mountains-area hiking book I read. He was a brave soul. Elevated them to cult status, whether they deserve it or not. How many people were attacked by humans in the last 40 years? Now how many other domestic animals such as pets have been taken, is anyones guess. This is why Forest Rangers use a slug (.73 cal = 12GA) a poor mans elephant gun under 50 yards that rivals a .458 Win Mag. The heaviest I have found without casting my own is 265 gr. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. According to Hornady's data, the XTP bullets from a 7.5-inch barrel clock at 1350 fps and generate . For animals, I always get concentrated-stream types. ONE DEAD HIKER EMPTIED .38 IN HIM AND CAN SEE HOW WELL THAT WORKED. The hunters violated the most basic safety rule when cleaning game to pack out. Its similar to the one my cousin uses. It doesnt mean anything. Grizzly bears can operate much longer that humans due to the way their circulatory system/muscles work. Oh, and the other key to using .44 Magnum to successfully stop a large grizzly bear attack is HAVING IT ON YOUR PERSON. However, Ive learned a few things. While some may consider it the minimum, its plenty powerful enough to stop an onerous bear. The key to using .44 Magnum to successfully stop a large grizzly bear attack is using heavy, hardcast lead bullets and having a 6+ inch barrel to boost muzzle velocity (over short-barreled revolvers). has a well-deserved reputation as a charge-stopper. cartridges like 7mm Rem, which are both versatile and dependable. So that makes two attacks on humans. In general, you should always try to avoid any conflict with bears if possible. You might have learned that if you didnt try to snub total strangers over the internet and instead tried to speak as intelligently as the author just did when he disputed my claims just now. There is no definitive answer to this question as different bears will respond differently to various types of bullets. I grew up half the time in Alaska and the other half in Seattle. Several folks have even successfully killed bears with a 9mm. If I was in the wilderness thered be a gun on me at all times. This is the end of my comment. Note that the .38 Long Colt used in the Philipines was even less powerful than the .38 special, and US troops did in fact prefer the .45 Colt revolver to the .38 Long Colt. Favorites include, from top, an S&W in .44 Mag, a Dan Wesson in .445 SuperMag and a single-action Ruger chambered in .41 Magnum. I am thinking I would allways have a friend with me to watch my back, if indeed I was to be in a situation of a bear encroachment. Because a bear will suffer irreversible and irreparable damage to its heart, lungs, spine, and brain if it is shot, the only way to kill it is to shoot it so that it can be killed. And they dont work well if you dont shake the cans from time to time, just like spray paint. The .357 is also available in smaller-framed revolvers that fit smaller hands, making it ideal for women and less experienced shooters. Show me on the doll where the handgun touched you. In general, you should always try to avoid any conflict with bears if possible. 2. Thats a cool chest rig. Using the Mag. Thats about the only way a handgun bullet is going to drop a charging bear that quickly. I dont have any particular issue with what youve said so far, but you must understand that by refusing to give any actual citation of your sources you are undermining your own argument. With red powder coating the loaded cartridges look like little lipsticks. Your comment is just what the doctor ordered. Comparatively, the 44-magnum ammunition I prefer to carry for bear defense is much cheaper than some. A charging grizzly bear can reach speeds of 35 mph an hour for short distances and their acceleration rate is phenomenal. And they degrade over time, and must be replaced. When I worked as a hunting guide, my boss introduced me to our hunters as PETA Joe, do to my love of critters, I dont trust bears, theyre hard to make friends with. Someone who hates you. And those rifleslike the Marlin 1894 or Ruger 77/44are lightweight, compact, and ideal for hound. Redding Reloading Equipment has added a New 3-Die Set for the 300 HAMRa bottleneck cartridge based on a modified .223 Remington case necked up to 30-caliber. Well thought-out, well-researched, and well-said. Value. This is really what the .44 mag was designed for. Your fat. Two or three times, he never replied, I looked everywhere, no bear, as I turned and looked behind me, ( I was setting in a camp chair) I was eye to eye with a big Boar Grizzly coming in fast, ( Luckily he wasnt charging yet) I looked him in the Eye, he was not stopping! I mention this one because of its immense stopping power at extremely close distances. Im not criticizing him for that, but he didnt say it was his research. Best thing in the world? They have been documented stalking humans, attacking without provocation, eating humans they killed and more. Whats your excuse? has killed its fair share of charging bears. 2. BLACK BEARS: After all, I hadnt yet read any words from Hank, so I had no reason to do so at the time. Honestly cant remember ever having an issue taking grizz with a 44 mag (Ruger super Blackhawk) . We have a winner! for grizzly protection. 12-Gauge SlugAccording to Nelson, the 12-gauge slug gun is by far one of the most popular choices for bear protection in the Alaskan bush. DO NOT SEE THE MTN LIONS MUCH BUT THEY ARE OUT THERE AS SEE THE TRACKS AND A GLANCE OUT THE WINDOW ONCE IN A WHILE. Here are some tips on how to do just that: Many people have this question, and the answer is not a simple one. The 44 Mag does have its downsides. Can a .44 Magnum L5 Desert Eagle stop a Bear attack? The 10mm is also coming into popularity because of capacity. .458 Winchester Magnum (500gr Hornady DGX at 2,140fps)(has 5083.36 ft lbs): 70.0 Ive also bothered to read Weingartens stuff for years. Even in the flawed study Efficacy of firearms for bear deterrence in Alaska the researchers only found 269 attacks in Alaska. No joke, a full house 44 Mag in a rifle kicks. That is a big difference. Since the bear usually knows where you are long before you are aware of the bear, your reaction time may be considerably less than 4.5 seconds. So, I asked about this. At the ranges that most bear attacks occur, you dont need a longer barrel to deliver accuracy out to distant ranges. Likely been in a group home since his folks could no longer care for him. I saw a buckle with a strap running through it. Id like to see Boddingtons sources for hundreds of attacks. We better remember that when we are out where the truly strong are. People arent buying snubbies in big calibers for this kind of situation any more than theyre buying large knives because they want to join that one guy who actually did kill a grizzly with a Ka-Bar. .357 S&W MagnumWhile some folks claim the .44 Magnum is the minimum for charging bears, many others have opted for a Glock 20 in 10mm Auto and, interestingly enough, passed right by the .357 S&W Magnum. We have to think. Why wouldnt you choose a long-barreled gun that shoots with higher velocity, better penetration, more accuracy, less muzzle flip, less recoil, and holds one more bullet to stop a charging bear? I found the account as I was searching for bear attacks where pistols had been used as a defensive measure. Every 1.5 pages, it tells you that youre now at the exact trail spot where yet another guy from yet another sawmill was killed by a grizzly on such and such a date. When I need it, I simply have to grab my pistol and pull. Im comfortable carrying the .38, with better bullets, where I hunt. Seems that the bleeding hearts in the state in which he resides view the rights of wild animals and violent sociopaths as superior to those of regular folks. Lol my dad had one (we lived in southeastern Alaska and he carried it for bear). Lessons learned . And Im sick with the flu,so Im goofing off in this pathetic comments section. Some of these guys are border line genius. However, if we are considering the average person on an outdoor adventure, we need to look at the best fit option. Maybe you should pay more attention to the world around you and have a little less Tude with everyone. From thegreatwhitehunter.com: When Reed distracted the bear from its attack on me, I had time to concentrate on the holster. Make sure to have several encounters. NOT UNUSUAL TO HAVE BEARS CLOSE TO CABIN EATING BERRIES OR GETTING A DRINK. Bears can be very dangerous when theyre angry, so its best to stay out of their reach. . The rest of the time it stays secure in its holster. Alaskan Grizzly Bear Attack Demonstrates Effectiveness of .44 Magnum, How to Horrify the Mainstream Media in One Easy Step, Gun Review: Springfield Armory Ronin EMP 3 9mm 1911, https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2017/7/6/handguns-for-defense-in-bear-country/, https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/04/140415-black-bear-florida-attack-habitat-wildlife-conservation/, http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/41heavy.htm, https://leeprecision.com/mold-6-cav-c430-310-rf.html. Your cigarettes. The second and third time I used bear spray was against overly aggressive dogs. At this kind of range the accuracy of the longer barrel doesnt much matter nor does the penetration, which doesnt much matter anyway. As soon as I rounded the corner I spotted a probably 900lb brown bear, not barely 20yds away. I wonder what Larry Kelly would have to say about the negative talk here about the Magnaport Stalker handguns that his company builtand he took to Alaska and the African continent to do his testing with it way back in the late 70s or 80s. The cartridge was used to thwart attacks from black bear, brown bear, grizzly, and even a Kodiak Bear. .30-06 and.300 Win were the results. It wasnt even language. But they dont have sense enough to get out of the way of a truck. I heard that bear was a friend of Cecil the lion. will make it easy to kill black bears. Thanks for visiting eatingthewild.com. Above the lower 48 states, as you get farther and farther north, black bears do get bigger and bigger, more and more aggressive, and more and more dangerous, and you just might have to shoot one. The 9mm has 350 to 450 ft/lbs. Wow. Despite NGs statement about black bears normally running when confronted by a human, do not bet your life on it! When Jeff Newville faced his moment of truth with the grizzly, he barely had time to fire his revolver. Black bears are responsible for more human deaths and mauling s than griz and brown bear combined! Heres a look at the eight best charge-stopping bear cartridges ever made. CRIME AND WILD ANIMALS LIKE WHEEL OF FORTUNE SPIN, NEVER KNOW WHEN IT WILL STOP ON YOUR NUMBER. I havent seen anyone advocate using a pistol as an offensive weapon for bears in this thread, or in the article, it is specifically about using a pistol as a defensive weapon on a charging bear. If you do encounter one, though, remember these tips: It is important to note that even if a 44 Magnum round does stop a bear in its tracks, there is still a chance that it could come back after being shot. That sentence wasnt even English. In some cases, it may not even penetrate the bear's thick hide. Check the following. It would have been just as inaccessible while my body was pumping with adrenaline. Finally, always remember that proper shot placement is key when using 44 mag ammo for bear defense. What matters more is the right bullet. They must have been some real badasses. In terms of firearm selection, Nelson said its really about delivering a few well-placed shots on target in a short timeframe. And you cant kill cancer or diabetes with a revolver. I know a guy who emptied his 9mm into a Black Bearkilled it well enough. They are lucky to have survived given they left their primary defensive weapon in a tree! of energy at 1500 fps, while the 495-grain DDupleks leaves the muzzle at 1410 fps with 2,180 ft.-lbs. 7. In conclusion, using a cartridge such as the .44 Magnum is recommended when hunting black bear in order to ensure a quick and humane kill. But while our hands were fresh we shot the revolver first. However, bigger is not always better in my opinion. Go outside and smoke a cigarette or something. What is the title of Craig Boddingtons book? It stretched from the peak of the cabin to the ground. There is no doubt in my mind that the .44 magnum cartridge is a viable choice as a bear defense gun. .45-70 Government (405gr SP at 1,330fps)(1,590 ft lbs): 35.2 Then you have to get on target which is easier with a shorter, lighter gun. WTF are you doing using a holster you are not absolutely certain how to operate? 3. The minimum caliber for black bear is .30-06 Springfield. I suggest reading up on bears and forget the dual-fisted Indiana Jones fantasy. Ruger just took a Super Redhawk and cut the barrel even with the frame extension. We have to do better. My uncle Dale dropped a charging sow with a neck shot at the same distance with a s&w 629. The dog did nothing more than backup, sneeze, and trot away. 1. Not at all. GO FIGURE. So, at this point 39.53% of my life. The .45 Long Colt revolver (or just Colt) fired a larger diameter bullet, with greater weight, and a significantly higher velocity than the .38 Long Colt, or even todays .38 special standard loads. He was able to stop the attack by shooting the bear as it charged at him. Some hunters also prefer to use rounds with higher grain weights, such as 440 or even 500, for larger bears. The article was about pistols being used to defend against bears. You have access to the Internets, just as others do. But I do know this. I hunt on Kodiak. .454 Casull Developed by Dick Casull and Jack Fulmer in 1957, the .454 Casull is a dangerous game hunters dream come true. . All in the family wish him nothing but the best, however his violent and irrational demeanor makes him a true pariah and danger to himself and anyone around him. Believe it or not those that used pepper spray or just played dead survived more than those that pulled out hand guns and blazed away. This attack makes29 pistol defenses against bears that I have found. Developed in 1976 by Ken Waters as a wildcat cartridge, the 7-30 Waters is based on the .30-30 Winchester necked down to 7mm to improve velocity and trajectory, with a significant drop off in felt recoil. The mot popular cartridge used against bears in terms of this compilation was the .44 Magnum, which is often cited by internet and forum warriors as the absolute smallest you should go in bear defense. Only one of them ended in failure. A 44 mag with hard cast will travel a long ways through meat and bone if youre up close. It is easy to see that the 44 Magnum is far from being the most powerful handgun in the world. Contrary to Gun Writer Myth and continuing bullshit about the Philippine Insurrection (polite world for jack booted storm trooper war of rape, pillage and conquest) Jan Liborel found that there was absolutely nothing in the U.S. Military records that indicated the .38 Colts were any less effective than the later used 45 long Colt and little used .45 acp handguns used in the conflict. Of which he found 29 accounts. When I wrote, But how much time have you spent in the far northern woods so far in your life?, it was a statement about black bears. The article is not an argument against carrying a long gun, but a reason to carry a good back up as well. While it is extremely effective, the main reason its been so widely-used is because shotguns like the Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 are a fraction of the price of bolt-guns and, in turn, thats what the government has provided to its employees. That may no longer be entirely true, but the 44-mag cartridge is still a formidable piece of kit. Proper 9mm bullets yield sufficient penetration in soft tissue, but it may not stop a bear quickly enough to avoid being mauled. You can easily see in this chart how the different calibers using standard factory loads compare in delivered energy down range. The majority of my travel is either via ATV or Snowmachine, while not on foot. I am not looking to go toe to toe with a Grizzly, but if I am out bow hunting or have set down my rifle to gut a deer it is far better to have a handgun that will effectively penetrate a large animal than to scramble for my rifle if I get charged. I am skeptical. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. But energy doesn't kill animals, tissue damage kills them. I use Lyman no. and 2700 fps, thus delivering massive energy on target. Click bait makes me so mad I wish I had a .44 magnum! However, as far as stopping power on even the largest grizzly bear, it delivers enough energy to get the job done. He said it was his hunting partners gun. Actually looking for 300 grain .411 hardcast. If so, theyll need a no-safety, round-in-the-chamber-already handgun that doent get a longer barrel turned sideways under a billion pounds of pre-shot and still-biting-you-bear. But I always heard that bear spray worked better than a gun. Since hes a doc, his wifes a doc and their hunting buddies are all doctors and/or veterinarians Im just going to assume they know what theyre on about. Alaskan moose hunters Doug White and Reed Thompson were working on packing out the meat and head from a successful hunt. You need to drop it in its tracks and firing off many multiple rounds, otherwise with that much recoil will be like the miracle in Pulp Fiction. No, but if he cant get his long gun out its better than a knife or bare hands (pardon the pun). I've killed big bear with one shot (usually .338 mag) but I was also in on a bear kill with my hunting partner when things didn't go well. The 44 magnum is almost unspeakably more powerful than the 22 rimfire, so of course it will kill a bear. A well placed shot from a .44 Magnum will penetrate both shoulders of a black bear with ease. The bear, during the attack, moved from one hunter to the other, giving Doug the chance to access Reeds .44 magnum, that had been hung in a tree. Ultimately, it is important to choose a round that you are comfortable shooting and that provides the best chance of stopping an attacking bear. Had he chosen to come my direction, theres no telling what would have happened. The 44 Magnum is a powerful handgun, but it is not powerful enough to guarantee a one-shot kill on a bear. Gun Watch. You have entered an incorrect email address! Dude you should stop before you have a heart attack. Kinda says what needs to be said comparing us to bears. Talk about stopping power. There are some books out on bear attacks as well. GRIZZLIES: In the far north, when attacking grizzlies are on sportsmen before they can aim a long gun, they un-chest-holster an big-blast Alaskan snubbie. In his research of hundreds of bear attacks the people who used handguns usually did not survive the attack. Why the Alaskan was designed as a snubbie? I do have one. A clean kill is the best way to avoid having to track a wounded bear. 12 GA WHAT IT LACKS IN ENERGY IT MAKES UP IN WEIGHT AND SIZE/CAL. The Griz, as he is often called, is actually the North American Brown Bear. For more information on how to protect yourself from bears, visit the website of your local hunting or outdoors store. Hence common sense is applied to protect ones self. Aim is critical too and handguns just arent accurate, nor can they match a rifle let alone a a rifle that needs hard cast bullets for this job anyways. NOT A SHILL FOR BUFFALO BORE, REMINGTON, HORNADY OR WINCHESTER, BLACK HILLS OR OTHERS BUT JUST LIKE THE WAY THEY HAVE ALWAYS HELPED ME SELECT THE PROPER ROUND FOR THE SITUATIONS I WOULD BE IN. Looking at delivered energy gives us a better idea of how the 44 magnum stacks up against other popular handgun cartridges suitable for bear defense. Now thats a first-class comment! The 44 magnum is no exception. His father has tried in vain to get this sad lad committed to a psychiatric treatment facility for years with zero success. Assumption. As I pulled the revolver out, a sudden calm came over me, and I knew everything would be fine.
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